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stellar_muddle*rant button engaged*
Some of you may recognize this from one of the email lists out there. I wont kick the person who said this^. I do however have a few things to say about the particular assumption*.
This statement only applies as a blanket for your generic medjeeval shove on some braid and she'll be right t-tunic. Once you start looking at place and time and social status ie you are paying attention to what you are doing, that goes out the window.
Some places where it is bad:
Early 14th C in England, France and northern Europe. Please note that there wasn't any braid on the Bocksten Man's tunic. There are some gorgeously sewn tunics of that period out there and they are generally unembelished. This does not mean that the fabrics themselves were plain, just that they weren't trimmed round the neckline, sleeves or hems with bands of decorative stuff.
Some places where it is good:
Byzantine (up to 12-13th C at the latest I suspect - don't know where things settled out for formal court wear cf everyday wear)
12th C - Oh yes, you can go wild here (after taking a look at the references) - Teffania has lots of 12th C manuscript stuff, often looking at specific items of clothing, and is careful about time and place.
Some places where I am not certain:
13th C. Not certain about that, but you probably want to check things like the Mannesse Codex to find out. I suspect nonexistant or subtle, but I am wildly generalising without actually checking - yes, a bad habit.
Anglo-Saxon. Would need to look at Dress in Anglo-Saxon England by Gale Owen-Crocker. Suspect embroidery (extant pieces/talked about) and tablet weaving (not certain).
Migration Era. Don't know. Ancient Danish Textiles from Bogs and Burials may give you a start, but only really for Denmark.
Roman. Check mosaics and manuscripts?
Places where you could but I am not certain I would recommend it:
Viking (8-11th C). Tablet weaving or embroidery (eg Mammen chieftan) better. Some wirework eg one of the Valsgaard graves. Depends if you can find something that looks like the tablet weaving with brocaded in metal patterns from some of the Birka finds - if you are doing from that part of the world or along those trade routes.
*end rant*
* Can't work on tent - it is at the brute strength sew through 8+ layers of canvas stage**, clothing is 3/4 sorted, Z is off supplimenting power tools and I am procrastinating other stuff.
**But it does look pretty and tent like out in the back yard.
^ I wont make the observation that some 16th C clothing experts seem to have some (let's be polite and say) odd views of earlier period clothing. I wouldn't expect them to automatically be an expert in that area but a little general knowledge or the willingness to state "Not my area of expertise"^^ is nice.
^^ The addemdum of "You could try and talk to Blarg, who knows a bit more about it" is a nice extra.
Run out of procrastination and have an oilskin tarp/awning to assemble.
Happy to take corrections/comments though.
Naturally braid is a great thing for tizzing up any T tunic.
Some of you may recognize this from one of the email lists out there. I wont kick the person who said this^. I do however have a few things to say about the particular assumption*.
This statement only applies as a blanket for your generic medjeeval shove on some braid and she'll be right t-tunic. Once you start looking at place and time and social status ie you are paying attention to what you are doing, that goes out the window.
Some places where it is bad:
Early 14th C in England, France and northern Europe. Please note that there wasn't any braid on the Bocksten Man's tunic. There are some gorgeously sewn tunics of that period out there and they are generally unembelished. This does not mean that the fabrics themselves were plain, just that they weren't trimmed round the neckline, sleeves or hems with bands of decorative stuff.
Some places where it is good:
Byzantine (up to 12-13th C at the latest I suspect - don't know where things settled out for formal court wear cf everyday wear)
12th C - Oh yes, you can go wild here (after taking a look at the references) - Teffania has lots of 12th C manuscript stuff, often looking at specific items of clothing, and is careful about time and place.
Some places where I am not certain:
13th C. Not certain about that, but you probably want to check things like the Mannesse Codex to find out. I suspect nonexistant or subtle, but I am wildly generalising without actually checking - yes, a bad habit.
Anglo-Saxon. Would need to look at Dress in Anglo-Saxon England by Gale Owen-Crocker. Suspect embroidery (extant pieces/talked about) and tablet weaving (not certain).
Migration Era. Don't know. Ancient Danish Textiles from Bogs and Burials may give you a start, but only really for Denmark.
Roman. Check mosaics and manuscripts?
Places where you could but I am not certain I would recommend it:
Viking (8-11th C). Tablet weaving or embroidery (eg Mammen chieftan) better. Some wirework eg one of the Valsgaard graves. Depends if you can find something that looks like the tablet weaving with brocaded in metal patterns from some of the Birka finds - if you are doing from that part of the world or along those trade routes.
*end rant*
* Can't work on tent - it is at the brute strength sew through 8+ layers of canvas stage**, clothing is 3/4 sorted, Z is off supplimenting power tools and I am procrastinating other stuff.
**But it does look pretty and tent like out in the back yard.
^ I wont make the observation that some 16th C clothing experts seem to have some (let's be polite and say) odd views of earlier period clothing. I wouldn't expect them to automatically be an expert in that area but a little general knowledge or the willingness to state "Not my area of expertise"^^ is nice.
^^ The addemdum of "You could try and talk to Blarg, who knows a bit more about it" is a nice extra.
Run out of procrastination and have an oilskin tarp/awning to assemble.
Happy to take corrections/comments though.
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no subject
Date: 2007-04-01 03:20 pm (UTC)I find it interesting that people have commented on the peerage status. Personally it was the comment itself more than the person who made it, though the personality contributed a little to things. Also a slow buildup from comments in a number of forums. The silly assumption that earlier period clothing is the default newbie status, and people move up from there... that there is little skill and style in doing it and/or doing it well. Which is daft when you look at the people who are doing it so gorgiously -
In any case, I'd suggest a crusade to reclaim the well made t-tunic... but it would be mean to leave
no subject
Date: 2007-04-01 04:17 pm (UTC)It's a fairly mad comment. I have to say from my own perspective that I chose late period because it is piss easy compared to early. The patterning is a comparative doddle, you can fudge in any number of ways, and there are extant garments and commentaries and tailors' document abungo.
Early, on the other hand, is hard. Resources are much rarer and a lot of commentary is from archaeologists who have never sewn in their lives. That from costume historians tends to suffer more from polemic because there's a comparative dearth of written and portrait evidence to hold theories up against. Nothing shows up bad stitching or patterning like pre-15th century garb. And no amount of dodgy braid application in the world will hide the badness.
I agree with your list of early goodness, plus you, and Emayne and several others. Speaking with my posh git hat on, it's a sign that someone is more serious about medieval costume when they feel up to tackling garments that have no fudge factor if you want them to look good.
Now I wanna know which Laurel it was!But I need to try and sleep again regardless of raspy throatdom.